• Subscribe to our newsletter
The Media Online
  • Home
  • MOST Awards
  • News
    • Awards
    • Media Mecca
  • Print
    • Newspapers
    • Magazines
    • Publishing
  • Broadcasting
    • TV
    • Radio
    • Cinema
    • Video
  • Digital
    • Mobile
    • Online
  • Agencies
    • Advertising
    • Media agency
    • Public Relations
  • OOH
    • Events
  • Research & Education
    • Research
    • Media Education
      • Media Mentor
  • Press Office
    • Press Office
    • TMO.Live Blog
    • Events
    • Jobs
No Result
View All Result
  • Home
  • MOST Awards
  • News
    • Awards
    • Media Mecca
  • Print
    • Newspapers
    • Magazines
    • Publishing
  • Broadcasting
    • TV
    • Radio
    • Cinema
    • Video
  • Digital
    • Mobile
    • Online
  • Agencies
    • Advertising
    • Media agency
    • Public Relations
  • OOH
    • Events
  • Research & Education
    • Research
    • Media Education
      • Media Mentor
  • Press Office
    • Press Office
    • TMO.Live Blog
    • Events
    • Jobs
No Result
View All Result
The Media Online
No Result
View All Result
Home Communications

Jack and Jill – a rather sinister nursery rhyme?

by Caryn Gootkin
May 4, 2011
in Communications
0 0
3
Jack and Jill – a rather sinister nursery rhyme?
Share on FacebookShare on Twitter

Caryn Gootkin delves into the murky waters of seemingly innocent nursery rhymes.

My nephew, who turns six this week, has begun playing “find the homonym”. Of course he doesn’t call it the homonym game; to him it is the game of finding words that sound the same but have different meanings.

My five-year-old son loves the game and we played it on a recent car trip. To my surprise he came up with “pale”. He explained it as both “a light kind of colour” and “a bucket”. Intrigued, I asked him how he knew that a pail was a bucket. “From Jack and Jill, mom”, he answered, rather annoyed at having to explain this obvious connection.

This interaction got me thinking about nursery rhymes and their role in early childhood development. Intrigued by his osmotic absorption of the lesser used synonym, I had a choice: do some serious research into the educational benefits of nursery rhymes or have a superficial look at the dark side of these ditties. Fortunately for you I chose the latter.

Although there are different versions of Jack and Jill, the following appears in authoritatively titled The Oxford Dictionary of Nursery Rhymes, penned by the rather serious Mr P and Mrs I Opie. (I imagine growing up in their house must have been like being locked in a scholastic torture chamber.)

Jack and Jill went up the hill

To fetch a pail of water.

Jack fell down and broke his crown,

And Jill came tumbling after.

Up Jack got, and home did trot,

As fast as he could caper,

To old Dame Dob, who patched his nob

With vinegar and brown paper.

A pleasant, if somewhat implausible, poem? I think not.

Rhymes.org.uk explains that most sources attribute the origins of the rhyme to King Louis XVI (Jack) who was beheaded (lost his crown).  His Queen, Marie Antoinette, is Jill, who was beheaded after him. These beheadings happened during the Reign of Terror in France in 1793.[1]

Now this is a serious matter. I am a firm believer in teaching children from a young age the truth about the birds and the bees and the correct terms for their own stings and wings. I also don’t believe in sheltering them from the harsh realities of life. However, even I draw the line at explaining to them the brutal historic context of Jack and Jill.

The rhyme’s diction and flippant treatment of serious topics are also somewhat troubling to me. Apart from the somewhat archaic references to “pail” and “crown”, which our kids learn as “bucket” and “head”, there are some medical issues here that can’t be overlooked.

While we are singing and clapping, let’s spare a thought for poor Jack who fell down a hill (which I am sure must be an unpleasant experience in itself), breaking his crown. Remember that this doesn’t refer to the bling the Good Queen Bess wears on her head – if that were to break I have no doubt Lloyd’s of London would have a part to play. In this context, however, crown refers to the top of the poor boy’s head; that part which is more visible on Prince William’s head than on that of your average twenty-eight-year old.

Now, I don’t know about you, but if my child were to crack open the top of his head, this would be a cause for serious concern.  I would not take him to “old Dame Dob (to patch) his nob with vinegar and brown paper”.  Oh no, this would definitely be a case for major recoupment of the last twenty years’ medical scheme contributions.

And whilst “pail” is a bland, if somewhat archaic, term, the same cannot be said for “nob”. According to traditional dictionaries, at best it’s slang for head, at worst a derogatory term for someone of the upper classes. In fact, Vikas Shah’s entry on urbandictionary.com defines it as

A derogatory term for an individual or slang for a penis. Can also be used as a verb as slang for sexual intercourse.

1. That guy is such a nob!

2. Did you here, Bob nobbed that girl last night?

So, those of you who support keeping old nursery rhymes alive for the sake of nostalgia, can we at least agree that the Opies’ second verse of Jack and Jill should be dropped? If not, we run the risk of the Vikas Shahs of this world accusing old Dame Dob of paedophilia. And even I think that would be unfair.


[1] YAHOO! ANSWERS provides an alternative version involving two boys, named Jack and Gill, who represent the influential sixteenth-century cardinal Thomas Wolsey and his close colleague, Bishop Tarbes. I thought about following this path, but decided it would best for left for a future column on the origins of the Church’s attitude to homosexuality.

Caryn Gootkin delves into the murky waters of seemingly innocent nursery rhymes.

My nephew, who turns six this week, has begun playing “find the homonym”. Of course he doesn’t call it the homonym game; to him it is the game of finding words that sound the same but have different meanings.

My five-year-old son loves the game and we played it on a recent car trip. To my surprise he came up with “pale”. He explained it as both “a light kind of colour” and “a bucket”. Intrigued, I asked him how he knew that a pail was a bucket. “From Jack and Jill, mom”, he answered, rather annoyed at having to explain this obvious connection.

This interaction got me thinking about nursery rhymes and their role in early childhood development. Intrigued by his osmotic absorption of the lesser used synonym, I had a choice: do some serious research into the educational benefits of nursery rhymes or have a superficial look at the dark side of these ditties. Fortunately for you I chose the latter.

Although there are different versions of Jack and Jill, the following appears in authoritatively titled The Oxford Dictionary of Nursery Rhymes, penned by the rather serious Mr P and Mrs I Opie. (I imagine growing up in their house must have been like being locked in a scholastic torture chamber.)

Jack and Jill went up the hill

To fetch a pail of water.

Jack fell down and broke his crown,

And Jill came tumbling after.

Up Jack got, and home did trot,

As fast as he could caper,

To old Dame Dob, who patched his nob

With vinegar and brown paper.

A pleasant, if somewhat implausible, poem? I think not.

Rhymes.org.uk explains that most sources attribute the origins of the rhyme to King Louis XVI (Jack) who was beheaded (lost his crown).  His Queen, Marie Antoinette, is Jill, who was beheaded after him. These beheadings happened during the Reign of Terror in France in 1793.[1]

Now this is a serious matter. I am a firm believer in teaching children from a young age the truth about the birds and the bees and the correct terms for their own stings and wings. I also don’t believe in sheltering them from the harsh realities of life. However, even I draw the line at explaining to them the brutal historic context of Jack and Jill.

The rhyme’s diction and flippant treatment of serious topics are also somewhat troubling to me. Apart from the somewhat archaic references to “pail” and “crown”, which our kids learn as “bucket” and “head”, there are some medical issues here that can’t be overlooked.

While we are singing and clapping, let’s spare a thought for poor Jack who fell down a hill (which I am sure must be an unpleasant experience in itself), breaking his crown. Remember that this doesn’t refer to the bling the Good Queen Bess wears on her head – if that were to break I have no doubt Lloyd’s of London would have a part to play. In this context, however, crown refers to the top of the poor boy’s head; that part which is more visible on Prince William’s head than on that of your average twenty-eight-year old.

Now, I don’t know about you, but if my child were to crack open the top of his head, this would be a cause for serious concern.  I would not take him to “old Dame Dob (to patch) his nob with vinegar and brown paper”.  Oh no, this would definitely be a case for major recoupment of the last twenty years’ medical scheme contributions.

And whilst “pail” is a bland, if somewhat archaic, term, the same cannot be said for “nob”. According to traditional dictionaries, at best it’s slang for head, at worst a derogatory term for someone of the upper classes. In fact, Vikas Shah’s entry on urbandictionary.com defines it as

A derogatory term for an individual or slang for a penis. Can also be used as a verb as slang for sexual intercourse.

1. That guy is such a nob!

2. Did you here, Bob nobbed that girl last night?

So, those of you who support keeping old nursery rhymes alive for the sake of nostalgia, can we at least agree that the Opies’ second verse of Jack and Jill should be dropped? If not, we run the risk of the Vikas Shahs of this world accusing old Dame Dob of paedophilia. And even I think that would be unfair.


[1] YAHOO! ANSWERS provides an alternative version involving two boys, named Jack and Gill, who represent the influential sixteenth-century cardinal Thomas Wolsey and his close colleague, Bishop Tarbes. I thought about following this path, but decided it would best for left for a future column on the origins of the Church’s attitude to homosexuality.

Tags: Caryn Gootkinin other wordssinister nursery rhyme

Caryn Gootkin

After studying languages at UCT and law at UNISA and Cambridge, Caryn Gootkin practised as a lawyer for nine years before realising that her true passion was for words and the way they are used and abused. She has recently started in other words providing copy editing, proofreading and plain language rewriting services. Contact: caryn@cybersmart.co.za / www.inotherwordscg.co.za cell: 084 703 0777 | fax: 086 692 0391

Follow Us

  • twitter
  • threads
  • Trending
  • Comments
  • Latest
Kelders van Geheime: The characters are here

Kelders van Geheime: The characters are here

March 22, 2024
Dissecting the LSM 7-10 market

Dissecting the LSM 7-10 market

May 17, 2023
Keri Miller sets the record straight after being axed from ECR

Keri Miller sets the record straight after being axed from ECR

April 23, 2023
Getting to know the ES SEMs 8-10 (Part 1)

Getting to know the ES SEMs 8-10 (Part 1)

February 22, 2018
Sowetan proves that sex still sells

Sowetan proves that sex still sells

105
It’s black. It’s beautiful. It’s ours.

Exclusive: Haffajee draws a line in the sand over racism

98
The Property Magazine and Media Nova go supernova

The Property Magazine and Media Nova go supernova

44
Warrant of arrest authorised for Media Nova’s Vaughan

Warrant of arrest authorised for Media Nova’s Vaughan

41
AI in sponsorship: Beyond the buzzword

AI in sponsorship: Beyond the buzzword

May 9, 2025
Upping the ante: Tracking the year-on-year growth of gambling in SA

Upping the ante: Tracking the year-on-year growth of gambling in SA

May 9, 2025
Seven Days on Social Media: Tonya’s in hospital, the nation’s in chaos and SA doesn’t care about Joshlin

Seven Days on Social Media: Tonya’s in hospital, the nation’s in chaos and SA doesn’t care about Joshlin

May 9, 2025
Social media platforms are replacing Google

Social media platforms are replacing Google

May 8, 2025

Recent News

AI in sponsorship: Beyond the buzzword

AI in sponsorship: Beyond the buzzword

May 9, 2025
Upping the ante: Tracking the year-on-year growth of gambling in SA

Upping the ante: Tracking the year-on-year growth of gambling in SA

May 9, 2025
Seven Days on Social Media: Tonya’s in hospital, the nation’s in chaos and SA doesn’t care about Joshlin

Seven Days on Social Media: Tonya’s in hospital, the nation’s in chaos and SA doesn’t care about Joshlin

May 9, 2025
Social media platforms are replacing Google

Social media platforms are replacing Google

May 8, 2025

ABOUT US

The Media Online is the definitive online point of reference for South Africa’s media industry offering relevant, focused and topical news on the media sector. We deliver up-to-date industry insights, guest columns, case studies, content from local and global contributors, news, views and interviews on a daily basis as well as providing an online home for The Media magazine’s content, which is posted on a monthly basis.

Follow Us

  • twitter
  • threads

ARENA HOLDING

Editor: Glenda Nevill
glenda.nevill@cybersmart.co.za
Sales and Advertising:
Tarin-Lee Watts
wattst@arena.africa
Download our rate card

OUR NETWORK

TimesLIVE
Sunday Times
SowetanLIVE
BusinessLIVE
Business Day
Financial Mail
HeraldLIVE
DispatchLIVE
Wanted Online
SA Home Owner
Business Media MAGS
Arena Events

NEWSLETTER SUBSCRIPTION

 
Subscribe
  • About
  • Advertise
  • Privacy & Policy
  • Contact

Copyright © 2015 - 2023 The Media Online. All rights reserved. Part of Arena Holdings (Pty) Ltd

No Result
View All Result
  • Home
  • MOST Awards
  • News
    • Awards
    • Media Mecca
  • Print
    • Newspapers
    • Magazines
    • Publishing
  • Broadcasting
    • TV
    • Radio
    • Cinema
    • Video
  • Digital
    • Mobile
    • Online
  • Agencies
    • Advertising
    • Media agency
    • Public Relations
  • OOH
    • Events
  • Research & Education
    • Research
    • Media Education
      • Media Mentor
  • Press Office
    • Press Office
    • TMO.Live Blog
    • Events
    • Jobs

Copyright © 2015 - 2023 The Media Online. All rights reserved. Part of Arena Holdings (Pty) Ltd

Welcome Back!

Login to your account below

Forgotten Password?

Retrieve your password

Please enter your username or email address to reset your password.

Log In

Add New Playlist

Are you sure want to unlock this post?
Unlock left : 0
Are you sure want to cancel subscription?